Some Thoughts with ... Steve Hugh Westenra
24 Mar 2024The Author/s
Steve Hugh Westenra
Steve is a trans author of fantasy, science fiction, and horror (basically, if it’s weird he writes it).
He grew up on the eldritch shores of Newfoundland, Canada, and currently lives and works in (the slightly less eldritch) Montreal. He holds advanced degrees in Russian Literature, Medieval Studies, and Religious Studies. His current academic work focuses on marginalized reclamations of monstrous figures. He teaches the History of Satan and Religion and its Monsters.
In 2018, Steve’s lesbian Viking novel, Ash, Oak, and Thorn, was selected for the Pitch Wars mentoring program and agent showcase. During Pitch Wars, Steve was lucky to receive mentorship from fellow queer author, K. A. Doore.
His queer horror comedy, The Erstwhile Tyler Kyle, was mentored by Mary Ann Marlowe in the inugural #Queeryfest class.
He is a SPFBO9 entrant.
Steve is passionate about queer representation, Late Antiquity, and spiders.
The Interview
1.- Could you introduce yourself to the
readers of this blog?
Hi, Everyone!
I’m Steve Westenra, a Canadian writer from Newfoundland (though my family is
originally from the UK). When I’m not writing fiction, I’m researching,
teaching, and writing academic non-fiction. My research focuses on monsters and
the monstrous, particularly as they relate to marginalized experience and
representation and I have advanced degrees in Medieval Studies, Russian, and
Religious Studies. My most recent book chapter is an exploration of fungal
monsters in speculative media.
I have two published novels: The Wings of
Ashtaroth (a political epic fantasy that’s sort of like A Song of Ice and Fire but in the
ancient world and with a focus on a nation based on ancient Carthage), and The Erstwhile Tyler Kyle (a voicy,
contemporary queer horror comedy for fans of Twin Peaks and Buzzfeed
Unsolved). My upcoming fantasy novel, Ash,
Oak, and Thorn was mentored in the Pitch Wars contest and is set in a
Norse-inspired culture. It’s about a woman named Wytha whose failure to save
her king’s newborn child results in her exile.
I’m trans and neurodivergent.
2.- What
made you choose self-publishing?
Whew. Well, here’s where I’m glad you said it was
okay if my answers ran long! Also, a brief caveat that I’ve met some truly
lovely publishing people (agents, editors, mentors, etc), and this is in no way
me throwing shade on those people. Still, I feel the need to be honest about
how bleak and exploitative the system is as it currently stands.
Choosing self-pub was a long, fraught process.
I queried for years with a lot of close calls that left me more frustrated than
encouraged. After a
certain point (and a variety of projects in different genres), you start to
worry that the problem is you and that perhaps mainstream publishing just isn’t
interested in the kind of work you’re doing (spoiler: it wasn’t, at least not
at the agent level), or that you’re delusional and are a talentless hack. I
think my authorial voice is just a little (a lot) left of centre and not quite
what people are used to. While that theoretically ought to make my work stand
out in a good way (both for me and a hypothetical publisher), publishing is
notoriously risk-averse and rarely are debuts given the opportunity to put out
something very different from the mainstream. That sense of difference being a setback instead of a
benefit gets compounded when you’re marginalized. Regardless of your particular
marginality, you’re expected to perform (and write) in a certain way, and when
the majority of literary agents are straight, cis, white women, that fact
starts to make a lot of sense. I’ve had rejections that were 100% based on the
queerness and neurodivergence of my characters (and myself), and have also had
friends whose books were rejected by publishers due to publishing’s systemic
racism.
In a world that’s very fixated on fast reads and that
increasingly considers quality the same as brevity, long-form writers are also
at a disadvantage. On
the publisher’s end (especially for small and indie presses, who I have a lot
of love for) there are reasons for this that are associated more with print
costs. But it’s certainly not the only reason for what feels sometimes like a
cultural fixation. Sometimes it’s like people read with the approach of getting
the experience over with as quickly as possible, and I find that incredibly
depressing. Ideally, I’d love for writers and editors to weave stories that get
to be the length that works best for the narrative being told. In the nineties,
you had fantasy authors pressured to pad their books, and nowadays I pick up a
lot of epic fantasies that feel anything but epic because they just don’t have
the page time to detail their world and bring depth to their characters (often
through no fault of the writer).
My self-confidence took a big hit after querying. Taste is subjective, but speaking
frankly, I saw a lot of not-very-good writers and books land agents and deals
while I was floundering. It was a flip of the coin whether that would make me
feel bad about myself (was I actually just a terrible writer?) or angry (why
was the system set up in a way that seemed to reward mediocrity and derivative
works?). There’s also a cliquishness in some circles that’s off-putting. That’s
not to say that good books don’t make it through–there are plenty of
traditionally published books that I adore (and again, it’s all subjective!),
but it adds to the sense of screaming endlessly into the void. The querying and
subbing process is absolutely soul-crushing. I’m glad I went through it in some
ways, and desperately regret bothering in others.
I could have written a fourth MS and queried that (as
industry advice usually suggests), but it would have been another several years
of writing/editing/querying/subbing, with no guarantee of a yes. I was very ready to get my work out
there and into the hands of readers, and having been told multiple times by
some very kind agents and editors that my work was ready, I drummed up enough
confidence to make the leap. I didn’t want to have to wait for someone else to
set a trend so that I could be given a chance to ride someone else’s
coattails–I’m more interested in creating original work and releasing stories
while they still feel fresh and necessary. At a certain point it became
important to be the one saying yes to myself.
The choice to switch to self-publishing wasn’t easy. Although I knew self-publishing was
less complicated and much more respectable than it once was, I was terrified of
the marketing side of things. Given how little support even traditionally
published authors receive these days on the marketing front though, the choice
was slightly easier.
I also love the artistic control self-publishing has given
me. I don’t have to
worry that my publisher is going to screw me over by marketing my books as
something they're not (I’ve unfortunately seen this happen to a very talented
friend), purchase an AI cover, or force me to change the queer and
neurodivergent aspects of my writing. Mistakes will still happen, but I know
they’re my own mistakes instead of ones I was forced to watch someone else make
on my behalf. I don’t have to watch my career being punished for bad choices
made by an algorithmically-obsessed boardroom full of straight cis white dudes.
I love love love collaboration, and one of the things that
did attract me to trad was that sense of both collaboration and
validation–being whisked off my feet by an agent who (finally!) “fell in love” with my MS enough to
represent it. As “whisk” suggests, I’m highly skeptical now of that language,
which intentionally invokes the fairytale romance. Of course there are
agent-author teams that are fantastic, but publishing language loves to
encourage this false belief in the ubiquity of these sorts of relationships
while simultaneously disavowing them when convenient (the, “well, publishing is
ultimately a business and so we have to consider the bottom line” schtick).
Collaboration is still possible in indie and self-pub
spaces. We still need
critique partners, editors, beta and alpha readers, etc. I still get to feel
like I’m part of something bigger.
(Look! I managed not to end on a cynical note!)
P.P.S. I
should also note that, when it came to The
Wings of Ashtaroth, choosing self-pub was in some ways easier. I didn’t
query it for long given its length (it was 260k at the time of querying). I
knew it was too long for a debut. So the above is more in reference to my
overall decision to quit querying. Retrospectively, I probably should have kept
querying TWoA, as it was a close call
for several agents and I didn’t query it anywhere near as widely as advice
suggests. I just didn’t have the experience to know that at the time.
3.- If I’m
not wrong, you have been part of Pitch Wars and #QueeryFest, could you tell us
more about your experience inside there?
I have been!
Pitch Wars and Queeryfest were both wonderful experiences.
For anyone who doesn’t know, Pitch Wars was a long running mentorship program
founded by author Brenda Drake. Every fall authors could submit a “package” (usually the first few
pages, query, and synopsis) to several mentors of their choice. Mentors were
usually published and/or agented authors who had more experience than potential
mentees. Over the course of about a month, mentors would request full and
partial MSS from potential mentees, then at the end of the process would select
a writer to mentor. Completed projects would be placed in the “agent showcase”
where agents could request to see partial or full MSS.
It was such
an event in the online writing world and it’s hard to express to people who
weren’t there the level of excitement around it. On the day picks were
announced people would hover around twitter in case the announcement was made
early (it usually was). When it ended, it felt like the end of an era. While
the contest had its flaws, the benefits far outweighed them, and I do miss the
excitement around it!
My personal Pitch Wars experience was a bit of a journey. Before the year I got in, I’d
attempted to enter several years in a row. I don’t think I received any
requests on Ashtaroth (I imagine for
many reasons, but I assume a major one was length–it’s a long book to work on
over four months). The second novel I entered with was my lesbian Viking novel,
Ash, Oak, and Thorn. That one got in
on my second try with it. My mentor was fellow queer fantasy author K. A Doore.
I was so happy to work with her. I remember being very nervous prior to our
first video call, but she put me at ease and was so kind and fun to talk to. It
was immediately clear from how she talked about the book that the things which
were important to me about it were also important to her. She taught me a lot
of tricks that I still use, particularly at the editorial level, and was an
excellent champion for the book. I wouldn’t be the writer I am now without her.
While I did get a decent number of requests for an adult
book (YA tended to be the big focus of the contest), I didn’t land an agent.
Even so, the experience was invaluable.
Queeryfest was kind of an offshoot (or successor) to Pitch Wars in many ways. After PW ended, a bunch of former
mentors got together to form new mentorship programs and Queeryfest was one of
those. As the name suggests it was specifically focused on queer books and
authors. The Erstwhile Tyler Kyle was
mentored by the absolutely wonderful Mary Ann Marlowe (known for her romance
novels, which I HIGHLY recommend). Mary Ann was a font of knowledge and shared
so much of her insight into the industry with me. I could seriously fill an
encyclopedia with everything I learned from her.
I want to phrase this in a way that doesn’t come off as
bragging, but it’s hard to do. Basically, she felt TETK needed
very little work–it just needed to be cut down (but cut down by A LOT). Mary
Ann diligently and tirelessly combed sentence
by sentence through my 144k novel with me till we had it at 119k. It was
still longer than most horror debuts, but it was a substantial improvement, and
it was about all we could do without sacrificing the beating heart of the
story. I was very adamant I didn’t want to cut something if it would impact the
quality of the book. It was a story I knew could easily turn into a very
shallow novel if trimmed too much, and fortunately Mary Ann understood and
respected that. When it came to self-pubbing, I did put a couple of scenes back
in that I felt strengthened a specific arc within the story, but I kept the majority
of the edits (it now sits at 122k).
I got a tremendous amount out of QF and met a whole new
group of talented writer friends (all queer, too, which was nice!). If it happens again, I’d love to be
involved somehow behind the scenes to give back and support queer voices.
4.- The
Wings of Astaroth was your debut novel, which you serialized at first and after, published. Why did you decide to serialize it? What would you say you learn
from this experience?
I’d
considered serializing TWoA for quite
some time, but at various points it’d felt like throwing something away or
giving up, and I’d decided not to do it. That attitude was definitely a result
of how traditional publishing had pretty successfully sold itself as the
arbiter of quality and value–something I still struggle with and which I think
a lot of us self-published writers do. To switch not only to self-pub, but to
serialization, was a big leap.
Ultimately I decided on serializing first, before
self-publishing the full book, because I was depressed coming off an R&R
with an agent that I’d foolishly got my hopes up about. I think I needed the immediacy of
knowing my words would be read by someone else. It helped that the style I’d
written TWoA in seemed to fit a kind
of “episode a week” format. I’m actually a huge fan of long form storytelling
(when done well) and some of my favourite writing comes from TV shows like Oz, Rome, Battlestar Galactica, In the Flesh,
and Twin Peaks.
I’m not sure I did serialization very well. I did learn a lot, I think, but it’s
hard to verbalize. One thing I will say, that might be helpful to anyone
interested in serialization, is that consistency is key. Make sure you update
regularly so people don’t forget you or lose track of the story. I feel like
I’m paying the price for that now in terms of The Crown of Asmodeus (sequel to TWoA). I got busy and wasn’t able to start posting it until Fall
2023–several months after TWoA finished.
I definitely had readers drop off because of that (and I didn’t have a huge
number to begin with).
Serialization
is a lot of fun. When you do have someone regularly reading and commenting it’s
a fantastic and communal experience. I love engaging with readers, so getting
comments on my work is very enjoyable to me. When readers feel passionate about
my characters it makes my day (whether it’s a case of the reader loving or
hating them).
My readership is very modest, so I’m hesitant to give out
advice, but I think “have fun” and “relax” are two perennial suggestions
that’ll never steer you wrong.
5.- The
setting on TWoA is quite interesting, could you tell us more about the
inspiration behind it? In general, could you tell us more about the characters
and some of the ideas that brought you there?
Ooo! Well,
clearly I love talking characters (will it surprise you that I also love
talking worldbuilding?).
The Wings of
Ashtaroth (Book One in the Sands of Hazzan series) is set in a world based on the classical
Mediterranean and in particular on the Punic Wars (real world conflicts that
variously erupted and simmered between Rome and Carthage). It’s not a one-for-one comparison,
so readers expecting historical fantasy will be disappointed, but it does
hopefully have the texture of that
subgenre (in a similar way to how A Song
of Ice and Fire feels textured and historically grounded while being
secondary world).
That said, I’m such a perfectionist that the idea of writing actual historical fiction (even fantasy)
sends me into an anxiety spiral. I don’t want to get things wrong (and
especially not when writing outside my own cultural background). I don’t
necessarily apply that same standard to other people’s writing (anachronism,
when used well, can be incredibly effective as a device), but it does rub me
the wrong way when I read something and the cultural or geographic setting
feels like window-dressing without any thought or care behind it.
So, with Ashtaroth,
the cultures I created needed to feel well-rounded to me, and the world
lived-in. Not everything needed to
be on page–and indeed shouldn’t be–but it was crucial to convey a sense that
the reader was being immersed in a world that existed beyond the page. For me,
this is different from there just being a lot of lore that’s exposited at the
reader–it’s rather the sense that lore exists apart from what we’re reading.
That it’s living and breathing and informs character at every level.
Ashtaroth
draws on real-world history
(including, ahem, historically
accurate buckets), but it reconfigures and reimagines that which it draws from.
It’s a bit like a jigsaw
puzzle, except the pieces can fit together multiple ways, so that depending on
how you arrange it, the finished image is different.
There are specifics I can mention. I drew on my Biblical Hebrew, Latin, and Old Norse
(among others)—as well as the very little Punic that we have—to help develop
some of the languages and naming conventions in the various cultures and
countries you meet in the book. Occasionally I do use real words and names as
well and I’m still on the fence about whether that was wise, but it felt a bit
silly at the time to invent a different word for gladiator–I did come up with a few of my own types of gladiator though! When I needed to describe some detail of
the setting, I referred to my research on Carthage, and where there was no
information available I looked to adjacent cultures where the archaeological
record is more intact. I do hope this kind of layering gives Qemassen (the main
city where the story takes place) a sense of depth and realism–that
lived-in-ness I mentioned.
Capturing a particular atmosphere and kind of
fatalism was also important to me. Famously,
Carthage was destroyed and then colonized by the Romans. In the novel there are
several nations and cultures that play pivotal roles, and I tried my best to
make each distinct while also maintaining a sense of intercultural exchange.
Next to Qemassen, two of the other important nations are the fallen land of
Indas and the highly academic eq-Anout, which both draw on the history of
Numidia. If you know the real history of the Punic Wars, there’s this tragic
element to the relationship between Numidia and Carthage–it was important for
that “vibe” (to use a young person word) to come through. Some of Carthage’s
own political organization I also distributed to eq-Anout instead of to
Qemassen–as I said, it’s a jigsaw!
Some key elements to TWoA’s plot don’t align with Carthage’s history. For instance, the question of whether the
Carthaginians practiced live human sacrifice is one of our foremost historical
mysteries. At the very least, the god “Molech,” or “Moloch,” upon whom Molot is
partly based, likely did not exist. If such sacrifices were made (and it’s possible they were an exaggerated rumour spread
by Carthage’s enemies), scholars now believe they would have been made to the
goddess Tanit. Nonetheless, this element was essential to how I conceived the
story. I love a bit of high drama and part of what I wanted to explore in the
prologue was the internal conflict of a character who fundamentally believed
they were doing the necessary, right thing
by making this choice, even if it still personally horrified them. There’s also
a lot of external tension and conflict that comes about as a result of the
characters’ warring ideologies. Sometimes characters with whom we might share
common values do things in service to those values that seem unusual or even
reprehensible to us, while those with whom we don’t share a moral outlook turn
out to be the ones we root for by virtue of their status as victims. I love
that kind of tension and I love when you can really sink into a character and
imagine their perspective. I was deeply influenced by Oz in particular when it comes to that element of the
characterization, but also A Song of Ice
and Fire, and even Revolutionary Girl
Utena. Unless it’s done in a very campy way, I tend to shy away from
narratives that paint characters in black and white.
Now, that said, there are some characters who are
so sadistic that one would be hard pressed to sympathize with them, but even in
those cases, I hope there’s a level of nuance to their personalities and
situations that makes them feel like full, real people.
6.- SFPBO9
was your first experience in a contest with TWoA; how would you say it was? Something you liked specially?
SPFBO9 was wild! And
wow, what a way to jump into the self-publishing world.
Although I didn’t get very far in a technical sense, I’m
so glad I entered. It’s
become a joke (“the real SPFBO was the friends we made along the way,” and as I
said in one of the Discords, “this isn’t SPFBO’s best friends race!”), but the
best thing to come out of SPFBO for me has been the connection with other
writers and reviewers. Right away, you were super welcoming and encouraging,
and I’m so so grateful for everyone who took the time to give me and my work a
chance, to answer my newbie questions, and for everyone who was patient and
friendly.
I’m a real newcomer to the self-publishing world and when
I entered SPFBO9, I only really knew a couple of people. I’m usually a very shy, retreating,
and self-deprecating person (especially online), and I made a conscious
decision that if I was legitimately going to try self-publishing I needed to
make a go of putting myself out there more. I learned how to do modern internet
speak (using .gifs and emojis!), and learned how to use Discord (sort of).
I think part of the reason a sense of community has grown
up around SPFBO is that, as with any contest like this, it’s an intense and
anxiety-inducing experience. I know I wasn’t the only entrant who basically lost the summer obsessing
over the contest, and getting excited (or sad!) when a fellow entrant moved
forward or was cut. I say I didn’t get very far (I was cut in the first round),
but there was a bit of an illusion that I had because my cut was announced
quite late. In some ways that was great, and in others it extended that period
of anxiety and hope. For the majority of the contest, I didn’t have much hope
that I would make it through (and I cultivated that feeling intentionally so as
not to get disappointed), but toward the end I started to think, “Oh! Maybe!”
That uncertainty wasn’t all bad though–it’s also part of the fun. I think I can
speak for most of us when I say it’s an adrenaline rush whenever one of the
blogs or channels posts a review, even when it’s not your judge.
To anyone thinking about entering, I will say to just be
aware that so much is down to things out of your control. If you write YA, for example, and
you’re assigned to a blog that hates YA, you may get cut not because your book
is weak, but because there’s something the particular judge or judging team
don’t connect with in terms of age category–and that’s okay! Internalizing that
as much as possible will do you a big favour. I was lucky in that my major comp
is ASoIaF, and my judging team was
headed by someone who loves that book. I do know writers, however, who were
assigned to teams that simply don’t love a particular genre or age category.
This is not to say that the judging in those cases was dismissive–my impression
is that all the judges did their best to be fair and open minded–but something
that’s important to keep in mind is that someone not well-read in a subgenre or
category is . . . well . . . not well-read in that genre or category. They may
not know the expectations for what you’re writing, or may fail to pick up on
the traditions you’re in conversation with. And, to put it bluntly, I don’t
think there’s a way around that problem short of having a SPFBO for every
single fantasy subgenre, which would be impossible.
Outside meeting some truly wonderful and talented people,
and getting introduced to a bunch of phenomenal new books, the other thing I
got out of SPFBO was that people read my
book. I still only have
a modest number of readers comparatively, but if I hadn’t entered SPFBO, that
number would be zero. The readers I have found have tend to be quite
passionate, and that’s honestly the best thing I could have asked for. If
anything, SPFBO helped me realize my writing is perhaps even more niche than I
thought, but that’s been both
humbling and extremely helpful.
I’d like to shout out a few non-judging people, yourself very much included, who were such vocal
champions of the SPFBO authors: Katherine D. Graham, Jamedi (you!), Raina
Nightingale, The Fictional Escapist, The Nerd Book Review, Beard of Darkness,
Zack Argyle, Rebecca Crunden, Rune S. Nielsen, Tom Mock, Sue Bavey, Vivienne
Raper, E.L. Lyons, Steven Hannah, and so many more! I’m definitely leaving people off (I know I’m
leaving off the judges and Mark Lawrence, but if I thanked them this would be
pages and pages long).
7.- Your
next book was The Erstwhile Tyler Kyle, a queer horror novel. What inspired you
to write this novel? How would you describe the switching gears needed between
fantasy and this genre?
TETK was my pandemic novel. I’d just finished a very long thesis chapter and was experiencing a lot
of what I’ll charitably call pandemic-induced malaise related to the job
market, my writing “career,” and the fact that our world is not-so-slowly
ending as a consequence of global warming. There was also a lot happening in my
personal life that informed certain aspects of the book and which I’ve been
pretty open discussing privately, though less so publically.
In many ways, TETK was
a cathartic book for me. In
a heavily fictionalized way it expresses a lot of my own anxieties. There’s a
reason that when I was still pitching it to agents, one of my target audiences
on the query form was “burned out millennials.” Beyond that, it engages with
themes of queer longing that I think (and hope) will resonate with a lot of
queer people. I remember wanting the book to feel like pure Id; I planned for
it to have this visceral feeling throughout, like maybe fuzz was growing on the
inside of your teeth. I’m not sure how true that ended up being in the writing
of it, but I think some of that came through in the “fever dream” quality that
a lot of reviewers mention.
In terms of its plot, TETK
was actually based on a short story I started to write over ten years ago. The basic premise was that a
closeted biology graduate student took a trip to this isolated island to study
a rare bird that could only be found in the region, and that while there he
became embroiled in this weird local tradition called the Dog Days (Dog Days was the original title of the
story) that involved hunting dogs (and possibly humans) through the woods. In
the novel, I deemphasized that part of the book, largely because I felt at that
point that Wild Hunt imagery had become a little overdone in between me
starting the short story and planning the novel. I also changed Tyler from a
biology grad (since I know nothing about that!) to a YouTuber (something I also
know nothing about!).
One of the earliest inspirations that I did retain was a secondhand story my
friend told me about a friend of hers who’d visited this obscure island in
Quebec that was essentially owned and governed by this one eccentric mayor. You could only access the island by
helicopter, the mayor’s portrait was prominently featured in all public spaces.
The local diner was weirdly old-timey and everything was laminated for no
apparent reason. I’ve never managed to find out what this island was, but it
immediately jumped out at me as a fantastically weird horror setting. For the
figure of the mayor in TETK (my
Conrad Uphill), I drew both on this story and on a real figure from
Newfoundland called Geoff Stirling. Stirling was in every way an eccentric. He
owned NTV, one of our local television channels, and invented this trippy
Atlantean superhero called Captain Newfoundland. When I was a kid, NTV would
play psychedelic promotional videos that featured Captain Newfoundland
alongside a lot of Ancient Aliens stuff. It’s deeply, deeply strange and so
quintessential, I think, to the Newfoundland experience. Here’s one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCXorHlegVM&t=3s&ab_channel=PlanetNewfoundland
There’s a reason that in the promotional material for TETK, I called its setting “Newfoundland but less weird!” Although
the novel takes place in a fictional town in a fictional province, Echo Island
is very much just Newfoundland but shrunk down and without the fishery crisis.
There’s a lot in terms of the atmosphere that was inspired
by Twin Peaks, and the Silent Hill games. One other aspect that I’ve leaned on
in promotional materials is also, of course, the influence of Buzzfeed Unsolved/Ghost Files (although Ghost
Files didn’t exist when I wrote the book). I had been struggling somewhat
with the setup for the YouTube show that Tyler and his co-host Josh ran,
although I knew I wanted to explore themes related to parasocial relationships
and how we create these almost fictionalized versions of ourselves through our
online personas (and how sometimes the line between the fictional self and the
real self can become blurred or distorted). This was in part an extension of
something I had experienced as a teenager through a very intense freeform
roleplay that I had with two of my best friends–and still maintain with one of
those friends! As a trans person especially (though I think for my friends in
different ways) it was an important outlet for me to express my gender
identity. I felt much more at home inhabiting those characters. That said,
there were negative sides to the intensity of how much each of us related to
our characters (and related to each other through those characters). I think a
lot of this tension is something actors and other artists will probably relate
to. I wanted to capture some of the porousness and slipperiness of identity
when it comes to art.
Buzzfeed
Unsolved was this fun show I
would sometimes put on in the background while making lunch. The dynamic
between the hosts was one I thought might be a fruitful starting point in terms
of how this tension arose between the two characters–Josh and Tyler. I think
drawing on the premise and popularity of that series helped me ground the book
in some ways, though ultimately the characters themselves are very different
from the BU hosts, and take more from
me and my personal experiences than anything.
It was a tricky thing, because through deciding to use that as a
jumping-off point, I became more of a fan of the show, but I also very much
didn’t want the book to be fanfiction of any kind. I didn’t want to cross over
into the territory that some of the characters themselves do in the book and
which I was actively critiquing. On a meta level though, maybe that adds an
additional layer to the whole thing.
In terms of switching genres, I didn’t find that to
be challenging. I’ve always been a
horror fan (the book is peppered with references to my favourite works), and
I’ve also been a big believer in the importance of cross-pollination when it
comes to writing. By that I mean that, consciously or unconsciously, we all
draw on the wealth of our experiences and interests whenever we write something
new. The Wings of Ashtaroth and Ash, Oak, and Thorn are both
horror-inflected. It was exciting though, to plunge right into something where
horror was the primary genre.
8.- What
lessons would you take from the releasing of The Erstwhile Tyler Kyle?
As always, I probably should have taken more time and
drummed up interest ahead of time, but that’s a lesson I’ve never learned. I’d been waiting so so long to get
the book out and I just wanted my ideas and characters to exist in the world
while they were fresh and new. I’d been waiting for a rejection on a full for
about a year and I was exhausted. I wanted the book out and I wanted to sever
the remaining ties I had with traditional publishing. It was also coming up on
October and I really fixated on the idea of having TETK release on Friday 13th.
For those considering self-pub, I’d recommend trying, if
you can, to put out the physical book alongside the eBook. I don’t have a physical book yet
(though a kind friend I made through SPFBO is helping me to create one!). A lot
of reviewers want a physical they can hold up and show off on their channel, or
simply prefer to read physical books (I’m like this myself, so I get it). I
just didn’t have the money or means to produce a quality book at the time.
9.- You
describe yourself as a monster expert, so could you tell us more about it?
Yes! I am a monster expert, in the same way that someone who completes an
advanced degree in a science is an expert in their particular subfield
(whatever that may be!).
Years ago, a professor of mine who was from England (where
I’m originally from) gave me the advice not to understate my expertise. To make a sweeping statement, in
England it’s generally considered impolite to brag or draw attention to your
accomplishments or focus on your expertise. You don’t want to make someone else
feel less-than because of a skill you possess. Although I grew up in
Newfoundland, understatement and self-deprecation feel very baked into my
personality. One thing I hadn’t realized as a young person was that (again,
making a sweeping statement), what would be received as polite humility in
England would be received as a genuine statement of one’s incompetence or lack
of skill in North America. I’ve tried as best I can to push back against that
and be emphatic about what I know and where my expertise lies, but it’s a
constant battle and it’s always something I have to do consciously. So. Yes. I am an expert on monsters. I have
published on the topic with reputable presses and am regularly invited to speak
on the subject to audiences large and small. I teach at a university level and
am respected in my department.
My interest in monsters comes from a similar place to that
of many people, I think. Although
sympathy for the monster has existed in a number of times, places, and
cultures, we can track a definite rise in that sentiment in the twentieth
(particularly late twentieth) century. Much of this is due to the monster’s
historical association with marginalized groups and people, and an increase in
our suspicion of grand heroic narratives. If heroism has become a dubious
prospect, then monstrosity has as well. When asked about monsters, students of
all ages will gesture more toward “real,” “human,” or “psychological” monsters.
It’s a cliche at this point in its own right, but in many late modern and
postmodern narratives, it often turns out that we (whoever we is) were
the real monsters all along. This is not to say that monstrosity has become
totally uncoupled from the physical. Throw a stone at any year’s Hollywood
offerings and you’ll find examples of monstrosity or villainy that are
communicated through physical appearance (e.g. Wonder Woman, Tangled, The Witches). Usually these texts will
depend on a cultural legacy of associating disability (Wonder Woman, The Witches),
ethnicity (Tangled), race, religion,
gender, or sexuality with the monstrous in order for the characters to be
legible to audiences. That said, concurrent with this has been a rise in
marginalized identification with the monster. The reasons for this aren’t too
surprising–we grow up watching, reading, and listening to works in which the
characters who look, act, or desire the way we do are villains and monsters,
and those same figures and archetypes have come to have an appeal for certain
marginalized people. In my thesis, I examine reclamations of monstrous
characters on the part of marginalized people. I’m particularly interested in
works wherein that reclamation is a little messy and in which the monster
retains its ability to cause fear or even death, yet marginalized audiences are
encouraged to receive the character positively. My current chapter though,
actually examines the monster fucker subculture (and subgenre), and I do a lot
of work on ecohorror.
My latest upcoming publication is a book chapter on the
fungal imaginary–the rise of fungus-inspired monsters across our media
landscape and cross-culturally. I was very excited to be included in this volume, which was edited by
the lovely Jeffrey Andrew Weinstock. If you want to dip your toes into the
world of Monster Studies, I highly recommend Weinstock as an entry point.
In my teaching, I draw a lot on my background as a
historian. I teach in a
Religious Studies department (not the same thing as Theology, as a note), but
my courses have all been entangled with the monstrous in one way or another:
The History of Satan; Religion and its Monsters; Magic, Witchcraft, and
Religion; Religion and Popular Culture. I work a lot on demons and angels in a
historical context and if you really want to get me excited, just bring up 1
Enoch.
10.- Gender
and identity play important roles in your books; why would you say they are as
relevant to them?
One thing that remains pretty consistent across my work is
that you’ll find a lot of characters who are “in between,” marginal, or
ambiguous in some way. People
in my books tend to be on uneven footing in terms of both identity and status.
Much of that, I think, comes from my own experiences of being neither quite one
thing, nor the other, and of having grown up in a small community but coming
from outside that community. The status of the outsider has always interested
me and in TWoA you’ll see different
characters’ Otherness or outsider statuses brushing up against each other and
causing friction (as well as camaraderie). In TETK, the role identity plays on the level of theme and motif is
probably more obvious because the identities in question are framed in a very
modern way (the 2019 setting helps), but I tend to examine identity as
something fluid and malleable. I’ve always bucked a little at over-categorization,
and so sometimes feel like an outsider even in queer communities because of
that. There’s a utility to category–being able to articulate one’s perspective
and sense of self to others can be crucial to being understood and to
implementing rights-based language in activist spaces. Many queer people find
themselves able to flourish precisely at the moment when they’re given a name
through which they can encode–rather like a demonic summons–feelings and
desires that were previously hard to express. Identity categories can also
foster a sense of community and companionship–they make it easier to find one’s
tribe. As “tribe” suggests, however, there is also the danger that such
definitions and categories can become both exclusionary and self-fulfilling. Are
we, I wonder, less likely to interrogate and explore the shifting nature of our
desires and our selves under the pressure to conform to a definitional category
that may smooth over our rougher and more permeable edges?
I think it would be an oversimplification to say that all trans people are
naturally interested in gender, but I do think most of us come to be interested
in it even if we don’t start out that way. For example, as a teenager I really
would have fought that suggestion because I very much didn’t want to
acknowledge gender or my relationship to it. At that time in my life, I wanted
to be accepted as male without reference, necessarily, to transness, let alone
any of the ambiguous spaces I occupied as a non-cis person. As I matured, I grew
more comfortable probing the raw, more uncomfortable questions that I think
naturally arise from these conversations. All that to say, whether I engage
with gender intentionally in a work or not, I find these days that it forms a
prominent aspect of my writing. There’s almost always something new that I
discover about gender (whether my own, or as a broad category), through
writing. I think that’s a wonderful thing.
TWoA is the easiest book to talk
about in terms of gender. It probably doesn’t fulfill a lot of the expectations readers might have
of a “queer” book (whatever that means–and I could write an essay on the
problems attached to thinking it means any one thing), yet its characters are
deeply queer to me in a way that speaks to my experiences and interests. I’ve
talked previously on your blog about the character of Ashtaroth
himself and how the messiness of his queerness was (and is) very important to
me. Initially I wrote here that I wanted to capture the messiness of queer
identity (actually, human identity in general), but capture is too suggestive of something that can be contained. The spectrum of human experience, regardless of
whether we’re talking gender or any other high-order category, is far too
capacious. What I’ll say instead is that I want to refract gender; I want to
explore what it looks like from a certain, uneven angle.
For good or
ill, gender is one of the primary identifiers we use to categorize people, and
so I think it’s important from both a worldbuilding perspective and a
characterization perspective to consider the role it plays in shaping in-world
expectations and experiences. In that way, gender can’t help but be important
to any work of art. In fact, I’d go a step further and say not just important,
but foundational. We live in a gendered world, and so any artistic work must
naturally respond to that–rejection, especially, requires a relationship to
something prior, after all. There are so many fascinating ways in which authors
of speculative fiction have done exactly this kind of worldbuilding and
characterization work, whether through the exploration of queernorm universes,
the use of techniques like defamiliarization, or by holding a magnifying glass
to the ways gender has been (and can be) used as a tool for oppression. The
power of gender both to free and constrain us is fascinating.
One thing I do want to always be careful of is that I
never offer any definitive or prescriptive answers. I think it’s when we start demanding fixed
answers to these deep and far-reaching sorts of questions that we get into
shaky and dangerous territory. I’m always wary of people who claim to have
“figured out” something as particular and mutable as gender.
11.- What
can we expect from Steve Hugh Westenra in the future?
Too much! I’ve been somewhat overwhelmed lately trying to work on too many things
at once (reviewing, writing, editing, working, etc). The result has been that
I’ve neglected all four of these things.
That said, I’m hoping to release Ash, Oak, and Thorn this spring (fingers crossed it’ll be ready for
SPFBOX). Part of me
also wants to submit TETK, but I’m
worried it’s not fantastical enough to qualify, and I don’t want to take
someone else’s spot if the book’s going to get cut for not being the correct
genre.
Ash, Oak, and Thorn is a secondary-world, Norse-inspired dark fantasy. It’s set in the same world as TWoA, but on a different continent and
two generations in the future. It follows a persnickety witch named Wytha,
who’s been exiled to the frigid mainland by the king whose newborn child she
failed to save. If Wytha and her band of misfit companions can find a gift
worthy of the king’s forgiveness, they’ll be allowed to return home. But as
Wytha and her friends navigate the densely forested landscape, spectral barrow
wights begin picking them off one-by-one. The deeper into the woods they
travel, the clearer it becomes that the wights aren’t attacking at random, but
have been summoned by one of their own. Uncovering the culprit will involve an
unlikely alliance with the followers of a foreign monotheist god, investigating
the truth behind a small village’s murderous Wild Hunt ritual, and upending
everything Wytha knows and trusts about her family.
I’m also continuing the story of TWoA in its sequel, The Crown
of Asmodeus, and hope to have the sequel to TETK (titled For One Night
Only), released in November 2024. For One Night Only follows the Discovery Bang team to
Josh’s hometown in rural Alberta, where their investigation into a local
cryptid combines with a hellish family reunion and a decades-old cold case with
ties to Josh’s own family history.